Here we go: devuan

[Tony Godshall]

More context on the systemd issue...

http://www.zdnet.com/linus-torvalds-and-others-on-linuxs-systemd-7000033847/

And Ubuntu's direction... (Mark Shuttleworth interview starts about
half way through)

http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/72637/mark-shuttleworth-interview-las-341/

Interestingly, ubuntu and debian are in more alignment now,
as Ubuntu drops upstart in favor of systemd.

That interview, as well as the inclusion of ubuntu-mate as an official flavor,
restores a lot of my respect for Ubuntu and Canonical.  I don't think they'd
make the LTS-breaks-loyal-user-desktops mistake again.

T


On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 3:17 PM, Tony Godshall <togo at of.net> wrote:
> On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Michael Paoli
> <Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>> Thanks,
>>
>> I also like Ian's well calling out the point (which I'm quite aware of
>> but failed to mention): "If" ... "this was just an init system"[1].
>>
>> For better or worse, systemd has its hooks/fingers into the operating
>> system well beyond being an init system, and conversely, many major
>> software packages/systems are, for better or worse, making themselves
>> highly and even inherently dependent upon systemd.
>
> I think at this point it is incumbent upon all of us to file bugs
> anytime such a dependency impinges on us.  Those who cannot
> use systemd are many, and as such dependency problems come
> to light, debian maintainers will need to fix them.
>
> ...
>
>> And it's not been just Linux looking at and/or using significantly
>> different init systems.  Has also happened in the Unix/BSD space as
>> well.  I keep hoping this would just all "work itself out" more
>> smoothly, and with less animosity and "battles".  But, alas, sometimes
>> hard decisions have to be made, and sometimes those are just about
>> guaranteed to seriously ruffle some feathers.
>
> Ruffling of feathers is the least of our worries, and putting
> it in those terms is obnoxiously belittling.
>
> ...
>
> If Debian is breaking things, people will look elsewhere.
> Debian's been solid on server, while others have broken
> things, and it would be a shame if Debian followed the
> desktop into brokenness.  But I don't think it'll happen.
> Debian has good feedback at bugs.debian.org, and
> it'll be hard for core packages to adopt systemd without
> regression bugs being filed.  IMHO systemd-requiring
> packages will end up being limited to the kind of apps
> that require Gnome3.  Ironically, Ubuntu (with its large
> base of xubuntu and lubuntu and now ubuntu-mate users)
> may become a force for core desktop sanity rather than
> reckless change.  Assuming a typical ubuntu user can
> learn to file a bug rather than complain on a random
> message board.
>
> All of the above in my humble opinion of course.
> Inflammatory rhetoric not to be taken personally.
>
> Tony



-- 
--
Best Regards.
This is unedited.
This message came out of me
via a suboptimal keyboard.