Here we go: devuan

[Tony Godshall]

Watching the video version of the interview new

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9qeQ7o33GE

Shuttleworth addresses the invasiveness of systemd at about 55 minutes in.

((By the way, Firefox with Shumway is very competent at watching Youtube.))




On Tue, Dec 2, 2014 at 12:59 PM, Tony Godshall <togo at of.net> wrote:
> More context on the systemd issue...
>
> http://www.zdnet.com/linus-torvalds-and-others-on-linuxs-systemd-7000033847/
>
> And Ubuntu's direction... (Mark Shuttleworth interview starts about
> half way through)
>
> http://www.jupiterbroadcasting.com/72637/mark-shuttleworth-interview-las-341/
>
> Interestingly, ubuntu and debian are in more alignment now,
> as Ubuntu drops upstart in favor of systemd.
>
> That interview, as well as the inclusion of ubuntu-mate as an official flavor,
> restores a lot of my respect for Ubuntu and Canonical.  I don't think they'd
> make the LTS-breaks-loyal-user-desktops mistake again.
>
> T
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 3:17 PM, Tony Godshall <togo at of.net> wrote:
>> On Sun, Nov 30, 2014 at 11:43 AM, Michael Paoli
>> <Michael.Paoli at cal.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> I also like Ian's well calling out the point (which I'm quite aware of
>>> but failed to mention): "If" ... "this was just an init system"[1].
>>>
>>> For better or worse, systemd has its hooks/fingers into the operating
>>> system well beyond being an init system, and conversely, many major
>>> software packages/systems are, for better or worse, making themselves
>>> highly and even inherently dependent upon systemd.
>>
>> I think at this point it is incumbent upon all of us to file bugs
>> anytime such a dependency impinges on us.  Those who cannot
>> use systemd are many, and as such dependency problems come
>> to light, debian maintainers will need to fix them.
>>
>> ...
>>
>>> And it's not been just Linux looking at and/or using significantly
>>> different init systems.  Has also happened in the Unix/BSD space as
>>> well.  I keep hoping this would just all "work itself out" more
>>> smoothly, and with less animosity and "battles".  But, alas, sometimes
>>> hard decisions have to be made, and sometimes those are just about
>>> guaranteed to seriously ruffle some feathers.
>>
>> Ruffling of feathers is the least of our worries, and putting
>> it in those terms is obnoxiously belittling.
>>
>> ...
>>
>> If Debian is breaking things, people will look elsewhere.
>> Debian's been solid on server, while others have broken
>> things, and it would be a shame if Debian followed the
>> desktop into brokenness.  But I don't think it'll happen.
>> Debian has good feedback at bugs.debian.org, and
>> it'll be hard for core packages to adopt systemd without
>> regression bugs being filed.  IMHO systemd-requiring
>> packages will end up being limited to the kind of apps
>> that require Gnome3.  Ironically, Ubuntu (with its large
>> base of xubuntu and lubuntu and now ubuntu-mate users)
>> may become a force for core desktop sanity rather than
>> reckless change.  Assuming a typical ubuntu user can
>> learn to file a bug rather than complain on a random
>> message board.
>>
>> All of the above in my humble opinion of course.
>> Inflammatory rhetoric not to be taken personally.
>>
>> Tony
>
>
>
> --
> --
> Best Regards.
> This is unedited.
> This message came out of me
> via a suboptimal keyboard.



-- 
--
Best Regards.
This is unedited.
This message came out of me
via a suboptimal keyboard.